<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:itunes="http://www.itunes.com/dtds/podcast-1.0.dtd"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Targum Lamentations</title>
	<atom:link href="http://targuman.org/blog/targum-lamentations/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://targuman.org/blog</link>
	<description>Translating my thoughts into words.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:42:37 -0400</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Should information be free? (Or: giving away your education) &#8211; Targuman</title>
		<link>http://targuman.org/blog/targum-lamentations/comment-page-1/#comment-54933</link>
		<dc:creator>Should information be free? (Or: giving away your education) &#8211; Targuman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://targuman.org/blog/?page_id=238#comment-54933</guid>
		<description>[...] Targum Lamentations [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Targum Lamentations [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Hobbins Reconstructing Lamentations &#8211; Targuman</title>
		<link>http://targuman.org/blog/targum-lamentations/comment-page-1/#comment-54249</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hobbins Reconstructing Lamentations &#8211; Targuman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://targuman.org/blog/?page_id=238#comment-54249</guid>
		<description>[...] Targum Lamentations [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Targum Lamentations [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Where to begin in The Beginning? &#8211; Targuman</title>
		<link>http://targuman.org/blog/targum-lamentations/comment-page-1/#comment-52696</link>
		<dc:creator>Where to begin in The Beginning? &#8211; Targuman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://targuman.org/blog/?page_id=238#comment-52696</guid>
		<description>[...] Targum Lamentations [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Targum Lamentations [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Targum Lamentations in English at Targuman</title>
		<link>http://targuman.org/blog/targum-lamentations/comment-page-1/#comment-24133</link>
		<dc:creator>Targum Lamentations in English at Targuman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 23:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://targuman.org/blog/?page_id=238#comment-24133</guid>
		<description>[...] Targum Lamentations [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Targum Lamentations [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Advice Needed: Tg Ruth Book Outline at Targuman</title>
		<link>http://targuman.org/blog/targum-lamentations/comment-page-1/#comment-11917</link>
		<dc:creator>Advice Needed: Tg Ruth Book Outline at Targuman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 02:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://targuman.org/blog/?page_id=238#comment-11917</guid>
		<description>[...] Targum Lamentations [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Targum Lamentations [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Brady</title>
		<link>http://targuman.org/blog/targum-lamentations/comment-page-1/#comment-1117</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Brady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 03:01:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://targuman.org/blog/?page_id=238#comment-1117</guid>
		<description>Dear Jerry, thank you for your note! There are a few ways that we can try and determine some sort of Redaktionsgeschichte but there can be no certainty. A few simple tests can be applied. We may compare certain aggadic additions to their parallels in other rabbinic texts. If we have some basis for a terminus ad quem, perhaps references to Persians or certain rabbinic practices, and we have a rabbinic tradition in which the aggadic or midrashic addition occurs that is earlier, then we can assume that the tradition, if not the targum, goes back to at least the date of the earliest midrashic/rabbinic text. 

We might also note that if an addition is based upon a play in Hebrew language rather than Aramaic, it is likely unoriginal to the Targum. This does not necessarily means that it predates the Targum but that is often a reasonable assumption. 

Finally, a very imprecise way, but often employed, for determining if an expansion is a later addition to an earlier Targum Urtext is to see if one can easily excerpt the expansion and still have the remaining Targum text make sense. 

In the end, the best I think we can hope for are very early aggadic traditions and some sort of terminus ad quem and then use those as our &quot;goal posts.&quot; No date can be set with great certainty, and I have not even touched upon linguistic evidence (mostly because I think it is far too problematic for dating purposes, but these perhaps the simplest and maybe even best methods we can have for providing a &quot;ball park&quot; date of composition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Jerry, thank you for your note! There are a few ways that we can try and determine some sort of Redaktionsgeschichte but there can be no certainty. A few simple tests can be applied. We may compare certain aggadic additions to their parallels in other rabbinic texts. If we have some basis for a terminus ad quem, perhaps references to Persians or certain rabbinic practices, and we have a rabbinic tradition in which the aggadic or midrashic addition occurs that is earlier, then we can assume that the tradition, if not the targum, goes back to at least the date of the earliest midrashic/rabbinic text. </p>
<p>We might also note that if an addition is based upon a play in Hebrew language rather than Aramaic, it is likely unoriginal to the Targum. This does not necessarily means that it predates the Targum but that is often a reasonable assumption. </p>
<p>Finally, a very imprecise way, but often employed, for determining if an expansion is a later addition to an earlier Targum Urtext is to see if one can easily excerpt the expansion and still have the remaining Targum text make sense. </p>
<p>In the end, the best I think we can hope for are very early aggadic traditions and some sort of terminus ad quem and then use those as our &#8220;goal posts.&#8221; No date can be set with great certainty, and I have not even touched upon linguistic evidence (mostly because I think it is far too problematic for dating purposes, but these perhaps the simplest and maybe even best methods we can have for providing a &#8220;ball park&#8221; date of composition.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://targuman.org/blog/targum-lamentations/comment-page-1/#comment-1088</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://targuman.org/blog/?page_id=238#comment-1088</guid>
		<description>Thank you for posting your dissertaion. It is a penetrating work. Is there a way to tell which exegetical material of TgLam is &quot;much older&quot;? And if not, how do we know there is older material in it? How does one separate between what came from the final redaction and that what preceeded it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for posting your dissertaion. It is a penetrating work. Is there a way to tell which exegetical material of TgLam is &#8220;much older&#8221;? And if not, how do we know there is older material in it? How does one separate between what came from the final redaction and that what preceeded it?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: A Good Week at Targuman</title>
		<link>http://targuman.org/blog/targum-lamentations/comment-page-1/#comment-95</link>
		<dc:creator>A Good Week at Targuman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2007 08:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://targuman.org/blog/?page_id=238#comment-95</guid>
		<description>[...] Targum Lamentations [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Targum Lamentations [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Brady</title>
		<link>http://targuman.org/blog/targum-lamentations/comment-page-1/#comment-94</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Brady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 18:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://targuman.org/blog/?page_id=238#comment-94</guid>
		<description>Isaac, there is no strong consensus, other than that it is late. For my full discussion of this please see chapter 5 of my doctoral thesis (which you can download at the link above). But the relevant paragraph is this:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Finally, there is very little clear evidence within TgLam which might indicate its date of composition. The references in 4.21-2 to Constantinople, Edom, Rome, Italy, Persians, and the “Parkevi” only serve to complicate the matter. The reference to Elijah as High Priest (a title found primarily in TgPsJ, which was redacted no later than the seventh century CE)#818 suggests a date of redaction sometime within the seventh century CE and this is supported by the rabbinic evidence.#819 Although the Talmud does not seem to be aware of any consistent use of a targum to Lamentations during the ninth of Ab service, Soferim 42b
prescribes the reading of the Book of Lamentations and its targum as part of the commemoration of the destruction of the Temple. It is impossible to determine if the version of TgLam which we now possess is the same as that described in Soferim. However, it is clear that the practice of reading the Book of Lamentations and its targum as part of the synagogal worship on the ninth of Ab became institutionalized by the time of  the composition of Soferim, roughly the seventh century CE.

#818
See §3.1.1 and §3.4.21.
#819
One must be cautious in employing an “argument from silence,” but it may be significant, and further justification of dating the targum to the first half of the seventh century CE, that there is no reference
to Arabs or Muslims.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
My views have not changed since I wrote this. I am, however, becoming more convinced that many of the other targumim to the megillot are also from this general period. There does seem to be some consensus about this, but what all scholars who have addressed this issue seem to agree is that we cannot really make any definitive pronouncement about the date of the final form of these texts.

I should add that it is clear that, as with all targumim, TgLam contains exegetical material that is far older than the final form that we have received. But I am also fairly certain that the &quot;final&quot; (as final as we can determine) redactor had a strong hand in organizing the material so that TgLam (and I believe the other targumim of the megillot) have a fairly consistent and coherent message. So the attempt at dating the final form is, in many ways, a dating of its &quot;composition.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isaac, there is no strong consensus, other than that it is late. For my full discussion of this please see chapter 5 of my doctoral thesis (which you can download at the link above). But the relevant paragraph is this:</p>
<blockquote><p>Finally, there is very little clear evidence within TgLam which might indicate its date of composition. The references in 4.21-2 to Constantinople, Edom, Rome, Italy, Persians, and the “Parkevi” only serve to complicate the matter. The reference to Elijah as High Priest (a title found primarily in TgPsJ, which was redacted no later than the seventh century CE)#818 suggests a date of redaction sometime within the seventh century CE and this is supported by the rabbinic evidence.#819 Although the Talmud does not seem to be aware of any consistent use of a targum to Lamentations during the ninth of Ab service, Soferim 42b<br />
prescribes the reading of the Book of Lamentations and its targum as part of the commemoration of the destruction of the Temple. It is impossible to determine if the version of TgLam which we now possess is the same as that described in Soferim. However, it is clear that the practice of reading the Book of Lamentations and its targum as part of the synagogal worship on the ninth of Ab became institutionalized by the time of  the composition of Soferim, roughly the seventh century CE.</p>
<p>#818<br />
See §3.1.1 and §3.4.21.<br />
#819<br />
One must be cautious in employing an “argument from silence,” but it may be significant, and further justification of dating the targum to the first half of the seventh century CE, that there is no reference<br />
to Arabs or Muslims.</p></blockquote>
<p>My views have not changed since I wrote this. I am, however, becoming more convinced that many of the other targumim to the megillot are also from this general period. There does seem to be some consensus about this, but what all scholars who have addressed this issue seem to agree is that we cannot really make any definitive pronouncement about the date of the final form of these texts.</p>
<p>I should add that it is clear that, as with all targumim, TgLam contains exegetical material that is far older than the final form that we have received. But I am also fairly certain that the &#8220;final&#8221; (as final as we can determine) redactor had a strong hand in organizing the material so that TgLam (and I believe the other targumim of the megillot) have a fairly consistent and coherent message. So the attempt at dating the final form is, in many ways, a dating of its &#8220;composition.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: isaac</title>
		<link>http://targuman.org/blog/targum-lamentations/comment-page-1/#comment-93</link>
		<dc:creator>isaac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://targuman.org/blog/?page_id=238#comment-93</guid>
		<description>What is the time of the composition of Targum Lamentations - or at least the supposed century? Is there an concensus about this date?

Many thanks!

isaac</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is the time of the composition of Targum Lamentations &#8211; or at least the supposed century? Is there an concensus about this date?</p>
<p>Many thanks!</p>
<p>isaac</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
