Comments on: Where to begin in The Beginning? http://targuman.org/blog/2009/09/01/where-to-begin-in-the-beginning/ Translating my thoughts into words. Tue, 07 Feb 2012 20:49:27 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: A Grave Mythstake – Targuman http://targuman.org/blog/2009/09/01/where-to-begin-in-the-beginning/comment-page-1/#comment-53054 A Grave Mythstake – Targuman Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:33:23 +0000 http://targuman.org/blog/?p=3237#comment-53054 [...] agnostic or atheist biblical scholars are.) What I am trying to carefully tease out in asking us to read Genesis “literarily” is what those truths are, both those intended to be conveyed and those theologically [...] [...] agnostic or atheist biblical scholars are.) What I am trying to carefully tease out in asking us to read Genesis “literarily” is what those truths are, both those intended to be conveyed and those theologically [...]

]]> By: Chris Brady http://targuman.org/blog/2009/09/01/where-to-begin-in-the-beginning/comment-page-1/#comment-52725 Chris Brady Wed, 02 Sep 2009 23:27:58 +0000 http://targuman.org/blog/?p=3237#comment-52725 Keith - I do know you well and I am glad that you too are taking up the term snarky (while not being snarky yourself). My issue with using the term "myth" is that fundamentally, as well as in popular perception, it has the meaning of "a commonly held yet false belief." So to say, as we often do in religious studies circles as a kind of special pleading so as not to offend, "it <i>is</i> a myth, but it contains deep and eternal truths" may make sense in our little circle, but to the average person it just sounds nonsensical. Why don't we say instead that it is a poetic presentation of the truth? "Myth" is used because supernatural beings are involved and, the implicit assumption is, they do not actually exist. But for Jews and Christians God and such beings <i>do</i> exist, so why simply jettison the term and instead focus on other traits and characteristics of the literature? Keith – I do know you well and I am glad that you too are taking up the term snarky (while not being snarky yourself). My issue with using the term “myth” is that fundamentally, as well as in popular perception, it has the meaning of “a commonly held yet false belief.” So to say, as we often do in religious studies circles as a kind of special pleading so as not to offend, “it is a myth, but it contains deep and eternal truths” may make sense in our little circle, but to the average person it just sounds nonsensical.

Why don’t we say instead that it is a poetic presentation of the truth? “Myth” is used because supernatural beings are involved and, the implicit assumption is, they do not actually exist. But for Jews and Christians God and such beings do exist, so why simply jettison the term and instead focus on other traits and characteristics of the literature?

]]> By: Chris Brady http://targuman.org/blog/2009/09/01/where-to-begin-in-the-beginning/comment-page-1/#comment-52717 Chris Brady Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:48:14 +0000 http://targuman.org/blog/?p=3237#comment-52717 Jeremy - Rendsburg was a great professor (still is, I am sure) and I was amused upon listening to his audio version of his Genesis class just how much I had retained. I regularly use many of the same observations and comments in my own teaching of Genesis. Jeremy – Rendsburg was a great professor (still is, I am sure) and I was amused upon listening to his audio version of his Genesis class just how much I had retained. I regularly use many of the same observations and comments in my own teaching of Genesis.

]]> By: Rick Wright http://targuman.org/blog/2009/09/01/where-to-begin-in-the-beginning/comment-page-1/#comment-52713 Rick Wright Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:08:05 +0000 http://targuman.org/blog/?p=3237#comment-52713 Speaking of Rendsburg - he also frequently quoted to me (the language of Torah is the language of human beings) which supposedly comes from the rabbis. Which still leaves us asking "yes but where exactly?" Speaking of Rendsburg – he also frequently quoted to me (the language of Torah is the language of human beings) which supposedly comes from the rabbis. Which still leaves us asking “yes but where exactly?”

]]> By: Jeremy http://targuman.org/blog/2009/09/01/where-to-begin-in-the-beginning/comment-page-1/#comment-52712 Jeremy Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:16:04 +0000 http://targuman.org/blog/?p=3237#comment-52712 As a side note, I have not had the privilege of studying under Rendsburg in person, but I did use his Genesis audio course from the Teaching Company. For anyone else who might be interested the course is absolutely fantastic. I would say it is especially well worth it to get the DVDs if you wanted to do an adult education course in a church or synagogue setting but don't have the time to prep or have a teacher who has time to prep. It's here if anyone wants to check it out: http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/CourseDescLong2.aspx?cid=6234 And, David thanks for the book link. As a side note, I have not had the privilege of studying under Rendsburg in person, but I did use his Genesis audio course from the Teaching Company. For anyone else who might be interested the course is absolutely fantastic. I would say it is especially well worth it to get the DVDs if you wanted to do an adult education course in a church or synagogue setting but don’t have the time to prep or have a teacher who has time to prep. It’s here if anyone wants to check it out:

http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/CourseDescLong2.aspx?cid=6234

And, David thanks for the book link.

]]> By: Chris Brady http://targuman.org/blog/2009/09/01/where-to-begin-in-the-beginning/comment-page-1/#comment-52710 Chris Brady Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:43:30 +0000 http://targuman.org/blog/?p=3237#comment-52710 Outstanding David! Thank you! I will elevate this to a post. Good news indeed. Outstanding David! Thank you! I will elevate this to a post. Good news indeed.

]]> By: David Everson http://targuman.org/blog/2009/09/01/where-to-begin-in-the-beginning/comment-page-1/#comment-52706 David Everson Wed, 02 Sep 2009 10:13:33 +0000 http://targuman.org/blog/?p=3237#comment-52706 Hello Chris, Daniel O. McClellan has a link to an online pdf download of Rendsburg's book. Here is the actual page: http://jewishstudies.rutgers.edu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=236&Itemid=5 Here is the blog: http://maklelan.blogspot.com/2009/01/gary-rendsburgs-redaction-of-genesis.html All the best, David Hello Chris,

Daniel O. McClellan has a link to an online pdf download of Rendsburg’s book.

Here is the actual page:
http://jewishstudies.rutgers.edu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=236&Itemid=5

Here is the blog:
http://maklelan.blogspot.com/2009/01/gary-rendsburgs-redaction-of-genesis.html

All the best,
David

]]> By: Keith http://targuman.org/blog/2009/09/01/where-to-begin-in-the-beginning/comment-page-1/#comment-52698 Keith Tue, 01 Sep 2009 20:40:14 +0000 http://targuman.org/blog/?p=3237#comment-52698 Professor Rendsburg's intro course was a significant milestone for me, too. His presentation of the 10 plagues caused me to realize how much could be missed by "just" reading today -- without understanding how the original audience would have understood the same sentences. You know me well enough to know I'm not trying to be snarky, but I have to take at least a little issue with the "myth but still true charade" quip. The real problem is not the "myth but true" combination but the defining of "truth" as literal fact. Perhaps even more problematic is the suggestion that anything not literal fact, since not "true," must be "lie." Narnia is "true" in profound and significant ways, though fiction. Ugh. This is sounding too much like "What does 'is' mean?" Professor Rendsburg’s intro course was a significant milestone for me, too. His presentation of the 10 plagues caused me to realize how much could be missed by “just” reading today — without understanding how the original audience would have understood the same sentences.

You know me well enough to know I’m not trying to be snarky, but I have to take at least a little issue with the “myth but still true charade” quip. The real problem is not the “myth but true” combination but the defining of “truth” as literal fact. Perhaps even more problematic is the suggestion that anything not literal fact, since not “true,” must be “lie.” Narnia is “true” in profound and significant ways, though fiction.

Ugh. This is sounding too much like “What does ‘is’ mean?”

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